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What
comments would you like to be considered in the debate about the use of
the S.A.T. in admissions?
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| 1 | get rid of them unless they make them fair. |
| 2 | It should not be the primary criteria for admissions. Since it is such a small college, effort should be made to personalize the admission process. |
| 3 | While there are obvious faults in the SAT, I believe abolishing the use of the test in admissions out-right will have the College drop in academic repution. Perhaps another step can be to minimize the use of the SAT in the admissions formula and encourage our applicants to take the ACT or other standardized tests. |
| 4 | The S.A.T. should still be considered in the admission process, but shouldn't carry as much weight as it does. |
| 5 | the SAT is not perfect, but it is useful in helping determine who has potential if the student does not have good grades. it also helps the committee see who gets good grades by studying or who gets good grades from other methods (brown nosing, or just good at making up answers, or photographic memory). The SAT is flawed, but it can be useful as long as it is not used as the only criteria in determining acceptance or rejection. |
| 6 | While the SAT is not perfect it is an important variable in a persons scholastic abilities. Standardized tests are unfortunately extremely important to a students future. Not only does it determine the college they attend, but graduate school as well, for law and med students there are standardized tests given by states to determine their competence to serve in those fields. The SAT is seriously flawed, but it is only the beginning of what is to come, for those involved in higher education. Instead of abolishing it, there should be more emphasis on adequate preperation for those that have to take it, and extra assistance for those who suffer a disadvantage. |
| 7 | Abolishing consideration of SAT scores in the admissions process at Pitzer will not be good for the Pitzer student body. We need either the SAT or ACT or another widely used standardized test (I have not heard of any other besides these two) as part of the admissions process. The argument has been made that low SAT scores are not necessarily a reflection of a student's intellectual capacity; however, one must also admit that low grades are not necessarily a reflection of a person's ability, nor is the admissions essay always an accurate reflection of a candidate to Pitzer. Brilliant and capable people have been known to get low grades, and, as for the admissions essay, while it is nice to assume that people are being accurate and truthful, the possibility always exists that outside aid is employed in writing the essay, and that the essay itself is not completely factual. No element of admissions is perfect; getting rid of the SAT because it is imperfect does not make sense. |
| 8 | I think that SAT scores, when high, have meaning, and, when low, may or may not have meaning regarding a student''s intelligence. I think that SAT scores should continue to be factored into a student's application, but only in the sense that impressive scores will be taken into consideration and low scores will be looked at with less judgement. |
| 9 | I was a very good student all throughout my school years. I got very good grades, but the SAT made me look like a moron. It is impossible to study for it and there is hardly enough time to finish all sections! What about those who are not so great at taking tests? |
| 10 | The SAT doesnt take into account social class or people whose first language isn't English. It doesn't take into account the school one attended and what type of education was available to them. I don't think the SAT measures so much intelligence as it does how good you are at taking a test on a time constraint. |
| 11 | There's an almost perfect correlation between SAT scores and zip code, and a high correlation between SAT scores and parent's income. Look at a graph. It's frightening. |
| 12 | The use of S.A.t. scores has recently come into question nationwide. In fact, in the Oct. 30th issue of the "New Republic" there is an article that deals with S.A.T's. It mentions that minorities, women and students from poorer neighborhoods tend to do worse on the tests than their more affluent, white counterparts. If this is true, than a community like Pitzer should abolish the use of these tests as an admissions critera. The article also mentions that by dropping the S.A.T requirement, many colleges actually increase their stading in the "U.S. News and WOrlkd Report" rankings. |
| 13 | I think that the S.A.T. should not be weighed as heavily when decisions are being made about who we should and should not admit. I believe that there is a point where the S.A.T. does measure, to an extent, who is capable of doing the work that is expected at this college. But on the other hand, I do think that S.A.T. scores only really reflect who is good at taking the S.A.T. test rather than predicting how successful you will be in college or later on in life. The student's grades, they quality of their classes, and what they've done during their high school experience are more important and valuable criterion that should be considered when accepting prospective Pitzer students. Besides, I think that 3 years of dedication to the criterion mentioned above is more important than 3 hours spent taking some test. |
| 14 | Abolishing the SAT would lower the school standards. The SAT is also one variable used in ranking colleges across the nation. This might affect the rankings negatively since Pitzer is barely hanging on in the Second Tier. |
| 15 | If we could become more selective in admissions, and could improve retention, I would be in favor of making the submission of SAT scores optional. Right now, our admissions pool is not strong enough to drop it; schools that have dropped it are much stronger than Pitzer. |
| 16 | I would be very interested to see some institutional research to see what the relationship is between SAT scores and student performance at Pitzer. The SAT's claim to fame is that it is supposed to reliably predict "success" at college (even if it does this by identifying the quality of earlier education which itself predicts success). However, that said, I would like to know whether SAT is, in fact, a good predictor at Pitzer, and whether it is a more or less reliable predictor here than the national average. |
| 17 | chomp my big cock |
| 18 | I think that the S.A.T's are an important criterion for college admissions because many people who are intelligent and eager to learn are not turned on by high school curriculum. These people tend to get low grades in high school, but may have high S.A.T scores. These people should have the chance to go to a school like Pitzer because of our varied and and more interesting approach to learning. |
| 19 | Pitzer's reputation will be harmed dramatically if the SAT requirement is abolished!!!!!! |
| 20 | i definately think money can and does buy high SAT scores. So does attending a rich or private high school. But i think we would get lazy people here if you didn't even have to take the SAT as a requirement. We dont need anymore lazy people. We need pro-active, involved people. |
| 21 | I personally am a horrible test taker and my SAT score proves it. There are so many people with great skills and backgrounds that can contribute to the college a great deal. SAT test to do not tell you anything about the individual and their future potential. We should look at other attributes and not focus so much on testing. |
| 22 | I think that the use of SAT scores should not be the sole criteria on which an applicant is admitted or rejected from Pitzer. Rather, it should be used as one of many criteria on admission decisions. |
| 23 | Academic standards at Pitzer are already too low. The school is already a second tier liberal arts college, while the rest of the Claremont Colleges are highly respected acedemically. Abolishing the SAT is rediculous but taking into account other factors is essential. Please for the sake of my college education don't make it any easier to get into Pitzer. |
| 24 | Granted, while the SAT is not perfect, it is still a fairly accurate measure of student perfomance that should be used in conjuction with other measures, e.g. high school curriculum/grades, essays, etc. |
| 25 | It is fairly well known that it is a culturally bias test. We also know that there are better ways to measure student success. I would not want us to abolish it entirely simply because I feel we have a reputation of being an "easy" school to get in to as it is. I just think we should not put so much emphasis on the results of the test. |
| 26 | I hate the SAT, and don't believe getting rid of it would lower student quality, but I do think it would be risky for our reputation. |
| 27 | I did not really go to high school yet did preety well on the SAT. If the SAT is abolished grades should be abolished as well. The admisions department should look at all aspects of students, but should focus on them as a person rather then grades and sat scores. |
| 28 | I think that the S.A.T. scores should not carry so much weight in whether or not you are accepted into college. I think that they grades and the classes you took in high school should weigh more than your S.A.T.’s scores. I think that if the student has good grades and has taken challenging courses through your four years of high school and they scored very low in their S.A.T that does not mean they are stupid it just means that they are hard works and don’t do well under huge amount of pressure in standardized test. Maybe Pitzer should give students the option of giving their S.A.T.’s scores, if a person thinks they have good grades and had taken hard courses, but got a low S.A.T score they don’t need to turn it. |
| 29 | The SAT is not a good judge of a student, however it is not useless. It is a racist and classist test, however we live in a racist and classist society. (and we go to racist and classist colleges and universities, therefore it does judge how good a student is at the limited type of knowledge that it includes. I feel that it should not be abolished at pitzer, but it should not be a prime or even semi prime factor in considering an applicant. |
| 30 | if |
| 31 | the sat is an idication of how well a person can take tests. i do not believe that pitzer should abolish the use of the sat, but other factors (such as grades/transcript, essay, extracurriculars) should all be weighed more heavily. |
| 32 | I did well on the SAT and I feel they better capture my academic ability than my HS grades. If I hadn't done well, I might feel differently about the SAT. Also, I think one of the biggest problems with the SAT is that people often become so nervous about the test that they end up doing much worse than they should. |
| 33 | I do not think that the SAT measures much of value. It does have some minimal value for overall ranking of students, but do we really want to do that anyway? I think that Pitzer can take a wonderfully progressive step towards abolishing the SAT nationally by deciding not to accept it. Additionally, I think that it may enhance Pitzer's national image and boost application. Annually, hundreds of thousands of high school juniors and seniors dread and despise the SAT. A school that doesn't consider the SAT could be very appealing. |
| 34 | The SAT by no means evaluates critical thinking, the foremost asset of a liberal arts education. To use it as a criterion for admission to a unique academic environment such as Pitzer is a bit ridiculous... however, I realize that one must deal with the practicalities of the situation. A liberal arts college in California that allows you to study virtually anything you desire and has loose admissions policies would appeal to individuals who are already priveleged and frankly, it's the priveleged kids of this college that makes me want to puke. They seem to think they have a God-given right to do whatever the fuck they want without consequence. So much is disposable to them. (okay, I may as well rant in the next box) |
| 35 | pitzer has a reputation for havng stupid students. Don't perpetuate this, please. |
| 36 | If you got rid of the SAT as an admissions , we would get even more fucking idiots here. plus it would lower pitzer standing even further. |
| 37 | none |
| 38 | The SAT should be used to some degree for acceptance into Pitzer but not exculsivly. I know that there were several colleges I did not apply to b/c I thought my SAT was too far below the mean to bother. |
| 39 | I believe students are admitted to Pitzer based highly on their financial status whether they did well on the S.A.T. or not. Our student body is deteriorating each year and is swiftly decreasing in quality. Abolishing the use of S.A.T. scores probably wouldn't make much of a difference since Pitzer doesn't pay too much attention to them anyhow, but would show a lack of prestige in the school. |
| 40 | I
would like to speak before the admissions committee if they are seriously
considering removing the standards. I think it would destroy Pitzer and
most people will agree. I can assure you that the silent majority will
agree with me. Not only will we lower the quality of applicants, we will
lose prestige (and have a lower ranking), lower the size of the applicant
pool, deter potential faculty members and remove any chance of ever getting
decent alumni donations.
|
| 41 | people who attend the sat prep course perform significantly better. Students who speak English around the dinner table naturally have an expansive vocabulary, but that does not proof any academic merit. |
| 42 | what happened to having students of color at pitzer college? pitzer is doing SOMETHING that's changing the make-up of the student body to make it overwhelmingly white |
| 43 | It is one of many things to be considered when looking at applications. It is not a measure of intellegence, just luck; if you went to a well funded school YOU WILL DO BETTER. |
| 44 | The SAT is an important admissions criteria and unless abolished at every other respectable institution in the U.S. it should remain an important criteria for admision to Pitzer. |
| 45 | By getting rid of the SATs as part of the admissions process, we are only lowering Pitzer College's standards. |
| 46 | The test says nothing about one's intelligence. I understand that colleges require the test in order to compare alll students, but I strongly feel that the test is not fair, discriminates against lower classes and learning disabled students. The test is ridiculous. And so are tests in general. But standardized testing should not be what one's basis of a college education is. One should have the ability to communicate his/her skills to a small liberal arts college (like Pitzer) with out this test. |
| 47 | It would be nice to judge incoming students on what they have to offer the Pitzer community as individuals rather than by some number that doesn't reflect anything upon the kind of person they are. |
| 48 | It is a general indicator of academic performance (under the stress of time constraints, etc.), but not sufficient to determine one's capabilities. Other factors, such as grades, extra curricular activities, hobbies, jobs, familial responsibilities, etc should be considered as well as performance on the SAT. |
| 49 | The SAT is based on highly variable educational standards and represents only a small fraction of what is and should be learned in school. In addition, it is difficult to judge a student's academic ability from one test taken one time. |
| 50 | Until a better measurement of knowledge is found, the SAT is the only nationaly stadardized measure of school knowledge. I would also be concerned that it would discredit Pitzer as a worthy institution of learning, however, I am aware of the SAT's biases. |
| 51 | The SAT's most definitely need to be abolished. They are a poor and misguided measure of intelligence and/or academic capapbility. The SAT's over time should and will be replaced with a better means of choosing the right student student for admission into a university or college. |
| 52 | Regardless, it strongly reflects socio-economic status. It, however, does have some validity in projecting the potential of some students. For example, although a student may be of color or poor a score of 1000 better indicates hte capabilities than a score of 700. Most likely, the 700 would be unable to excel at Pitzer whereas, most likely the student with the 1000 will. |
| 53 | I think SATs are very important in the consideration of an individuals abilities, but it should not be a sole measure of ability. Also, it should be noted that colleges with higher SAT averages also have higher rankings, and it is important for Pitzer to maintain rankings so adequate funding can be received to meet student and faculty needs. |
| 54 | The SAT in no way measures a persons achievements and since Pitzer is dedicated to one's involvement in community through social responsibility than I don't see how being inside studying for a standardized test should be of any significance |
| 55 | SAT's should not be a major part of the selection process, since they are biased and do not represent a person's intelligence or commitment and interest in Pitzer. |
| 56 | SAts shouldn't be a deciding factor |
| 57 | I had to work hard for my SAT score. Every week I would practice test taking and vocab words. To abolish the SAT would be like spitting in the face of everyone who has ever been judged by it. Sure, I don't think it is a good measure of achievement for everyone but by no means should it be excluded from the admissions process. I would feel personally insulted if Pitzer stopped making the SAT score a basic criterion for admissions. Not only is the average SAT scores on an incoming freshman class a measure of a college's prestige and quality, but it also reflects on who applies to the school. If the SATs of the incoming freshman are low, then perspective students who would contribute the most to the academic environment might overlook Pitzer. I suggest that Pitzer be always trying to raise the bar of achievement both of their current students and incoming freshman. |
| 58 | this test is a test that you can learn how to take. there are some that have access to classes such as princeton review and some that dont. these classes help in most cases. there are many other things that should be factored into admissions that the sat doesnt measure...like personality. |
| 59 | I don't think use of the SAT should be abandoned at Pitzer (people already think it's too liberal), but I think the admissions staff should take care to look at everything a student has to offer, not just SAT scores, when deciding who gets admitted and who doesn't. |
| 60 | The SAT's are a more accurate measure of a student's intellect than a GPA, which is subject to various variables depending on the stability of the student's high school experiences. SATs allow students to prove their intellectual worth when public schools fail to provide such a forum. |
| 61 | So I hate the SAT's. But I do not think they should be abolished. I merely think they should not be the main basis for admission. Rather many other things should be given more wieght, such as the essay. Grades in school are just as much of an economic/class issues as sat's are and each person should be given as many outlets for showing their intellect as possible. |
| 62 | although the sats aren't a good way of determining a person, it seems to be the best tool we have in determining a standardized way of looking at preformance. |
| 63 | This is a criterion that is used at most universities. Pitzer is already ranked in the third tier and does not require the SAT 2 like most colleges. Please do not lower the standard education requirements any further. The SAT tests basic Math and English skills. There must be another way to take into account economic disadvantage without dismissing the only test that high school students are required to take. This will hurt Pitzer's reputation as a college and also will diminish the likelihood of many institutions taking it seriously. It might as well become a community college with no standards then. |
| 64 | In other countries all over the world children take tests every year to enter the post high school level of education. Black students do very well in these countries because more is expected of them. They perform well. American students, if they want to compete internationally must rise to this level and perform also. Black, white, asian it doesn't matter. Expect more and children will meet expections. Make success a culture and they will succeed. |
| 65 | Look at highschool transcripts regarding performance, not specialized tests. |
| 66 | I attended another institution for my undergraduate degree very similar to Pitzer. Because I don't test very highly on any type of standardized test, I never felt the S.A.T did me any justice of proving my scholastic abilities. I was happy that they considered other factors such as G.P.A, teacher recs, extra-curricular activities and personal statement when I was admitted. |
| 67 | The SAT is socially and culturally biased. It can be retained as one measure, but its limitations should be recognized and other factors should be given more weight in determining admission. |
| 68 | Could we use the SAT scores to determine if a student has the ability to do his or her studies at Pitzer? |
| 69 | Like most questionnaires, this one's queries are loaded, and, in fact, are inimical to everything I try to teach my students about intelligent discourse and research. One would have thought that the "have you stopped beating your wife lately" school of scholarship had been discredited long ago. It's disquieting to see it still in evidence at Pitzer College. |
| 70 | The Sat can be useful to show how students test, but shouldn't eliminate student who don't test well. |
| 71 | I would like to see the comment of economic background be considered in the debate. |
| 72 | My comments would be that a SAT score is not for all people because some people don't do good under pressure. |
| 73 | SATs
should be used as an instrument to measure how a student tests, not how
high he/she can score.
Students who do not test well should not be condemned because of poor SAT scores -- not matter how many times the test is taken. Taking into consideration the other work the students have done might be a better measure for success for Pitzer College -- classes, grades at the secondary school, teacher recommendations, etc. |
| 74 | The SAT is a ridiculous criteria for admissions and should be abolished all together... it judges the ability one has to take a test instead of the ability one has to learn or the desire one has to learn. Applicants should be evaluated on a more individual level, with more emphasis placed on essays, recommendations, and other personal statements than on grades and SAT scores. The admissions process should be more about selecting those with potential for whom Pitzer would foster that potential as opposed to creating a process of elimination based upon the scores of a test. |
| 75 | SAT scores do nothing to evaluate creativity and initiative, qualities that I feel should be given more weight in evaluating applicants. |
| 76 | Would this harm our accredidation? What other options are available? We still need to be a competitive college to attract a good mix of students. |
| 77 | If the student has low grades and a high SAT score, that helps them out in the admission process. |
| 78 | i strongly feel that the "name" of pitzer college will be belittled and will diminish if the sat's are eliminated as a criteria to be admitted to pitzer. our undergraduate degree will also not carry as much weight as it would normally. |
| 79 | I
think regardless of whether the SAT is a useful tool for determining who
will succeed in college (although I don't think it is), pitzer has a social
responsibility to recognize that people come from different backgrounds
and haven't all had an equal amount of opportunity for education.
And I think this survey should have included GPA as a question. My SAT was 1100 (I think) and my GPA is 3.67. |
| 80 | Though it is true that the SAT is not the sole measure of a college applicant's academic success and intellectual prowess, it cannot be easily abolished from the system because of many reasons. It is best if the application process consisted of other, more efficient means, in combination with SAT scores. |
| 81 | SAT
should not be the sole criterion for admission, not that it is likely to
be.
I have done SAT prep coaching and encountered many privileged, wealthy kids with low scores. I believe the SAT does measure something important, even if it also underestimates abilities in less-prepared students. Better diverse students will get higher scores than less well-prepared diverse students, and the SAT can identify those who will not be able to succeed at Pitzer, regardless of the reason and class or ethnicity. It is important that students be able to succeed once they have been admitted. |
| 82 | A person should not be evaluated on test taking skills, because there are so many smart people who do not test well. |
| 83 | I think it should be just one piece of information among many that are used as criteria for evaluating whether a student should be admitted. Some students are just poor test-takers and their score may not reflect their intellectual ability accurately. I do not think that it should be abandoned entirely in spite of whatever flaws exist, because there is some value in just sitting for the test itself. |
| 84 | The S.A.T test is unreliable on many levels. An example would be that ones race can effect the outcome of their results. Minority test takers tend to test lower than that of their white counterparts when asked to give their race before an exam. For reasons such as this, and others, makes the S.A.T's unreliable. |
| 85 | I was rejected from Pomoma College because I did not take the SAT. However, as a Pitzer student I did very well in my course even better than some of the Pomona students. |
| 86 | I feel that the SAT is a biased test. It has been proven that students in more affluent areas score higher than students in the lower class. Any test that you need to take a class for or train for is not a test of your intelligence it is a test at how good you are at test taking. I have met many bright people who did not score well on the SAT's but excelled in college because a college like Pitzer gave them a chance. |
| 87 | The SAT is supposed (by its designers) to predict "success in College." We should ask ourselves how the designers defined "success" and whether this definition is one that we accept. |
| 88 | I don't think that the SAT score should be completely abolished in the application process. However, I do think that the test should not be the only factor considered nor should it be held to the high standard that it is today. The SAT test should be considered but only as one of the more insignificant factors to be considered for admission. People that do tend to do better on the test are people of priveledge. I speak from personal experience when I say this. I went to a private high school prep school and the importance of the SAT was stressed daily. For others who did not recieve the same information or opportunities that I did, other requirements need to be developed for admission. |
| 89 | I think standardized tests on the lower level, such as SAT are silly. They prove nothing other than who's parents has the extra cash to pay for the prep courses. Not only that I think they tend to be somewhat racist and sexist (I don't know, maybe they've gotten better since I took them 4 years ago) But as far as I remember they tended to gear the questions to the middle class white male lifestyle which can be distracting to a test taker who does not match that particular background. |
| 90 | New Resources students do not take the SAT and that does not seem to hurt the Claremont Colleges in any way. Many of us are the highest achievers in our classes. |
| 91 | While I believe that the S.A.T. is a tool to determine some level of knowledge, it should not be used heavily in determining admission to any college or university. There are too many "exceptions to the rule" where S.A.T. scores do NOT determine or indicate possible future success in academia. It is nice to know that someone has scored well on the S.A.T., but this score is not ultimately that important. As a Pitzer New Resources student, I was not required to take the S.A.T. and in fact have attended three other colleges including U.S.C. without ever submitting an S.A.T. score. I am a good student with a 3.76 GPA and the S.A.T. has not affected me in the least. |
| 92 | I think that the SAT is a valuable tool in looking at a students abilities, in the fact that it allows applicants to be compared on a similar level. While even GPA can vary from school to school depending on its degree of difficulty and whether the school is public or private. But, I think that the SAT should not be an item that is weighed very heavily in the admissions process because it is not an acurate judge of all students abilities |
| 93 | The S.A.T. scores are not the only measuring device for academic capability, but they are an important and, for the most part, viable form of rating a student's chances of succeeding at Pitzer. |
| 94 | I think the SAT's have flaws, but I also believe it would hurt Pitzer's academic reputation to discontinue their use in the decision process. However, I think they should be weighted equally with other important factors such as GPA and extracurriculiars. |
| 95 | recognize that the sat is not a test of intelligence but a test of test-taking skill |
| 96 | What
specific knowledge does it really test? Is it the ability to survive one
year, economic status, the ability to take tests etc.?
What about combining tests like the ACT with the SAT? Better yet how about reformatting the test to today's standards which are probably lower than when the test was introduced? Instead of testing how about placing more emphasis on personal statements, recommendations, interviews etc. like graduate school does? |
| 97 | I felt the SAT's tested my vocabulary skills, not my English ability. They have also been proven to be favorable towards males. Also, many people have severe test taking anxiety, especially when they feel it may determine whether or not they will be accepted to a school. |
| 98 | The Sat is by no means adequate for determining admissions to pitzer however it is a usefull tool and when combined with other aspects of the application becomes only one more indicator of the caliber of a student i think at present it carries too much influence in the admissions office and that is a problem that should be remedied by modification, but to eliminate it completely is to lose one more identifying characteristic |
| 99 | The abolishing of S.A.T. scores in admission to Pitzer would greatly increase the amount of diversity and intellectual status of students the college has to choose from. |
| 100 | i am all for abolishing it, given that we put in place a more fair system for evaluating academic (and other kinds of) potential |
| 101 | My councelor in high school told me that I probably would not be able to get into Pitzer because of my scores. Because of that, I almost didn't apply. But really, what Pitzer stands for is not test scores, but rather what you did with your time and how much you accomplished. I would be so much less well rounded if I had just concentrated on becoming book-smart for the stupid SAT. |
| 102 | I am not wholly opposed to the use of SAT scores as merely one criterion for admission selection. However, I believe that standardized tests generally are not a good predictor of academic success. In addition, the biases of such tests are extremely dangerous. Talk about your social engineering!!! |
| 103 | SAT scores reflect, financial and geographical access to Kaplan Prep classes. They do not measure the ability to think critically or constuct cogent arguments. In the same way, GPA is an artifact, manipulable by social status and access to Advanced Placement Courses |
| 104 | The S.A.T. has been shown NOT to be equally predictive for all groups. It predicts better for European Americans than for African Americans or Latinos. |
| 105 | We need to have some standard by which to measure and/or compare students for admissions. The public schools (and private) need to be held accountable for educating all students according to state and national standards. The S.A.T. should measure whether or not that has happened. If we are "out" of the S.A.T. game, our ratings, as a college, will go down. We will not be considered a top rate college if we do not use some type of standard admissions criteria. |
| 106 | I think the SAT is useful only b/c it's tough for a college to consider a large # of students w/o using the SAT--comparing numbers is easier in admissions than reading tons of essays. But the SAT does not measure a student's intelligence, future success, or even education-it measures a student's ability to take the SAT! B/c of that, students who can afford to take an SAT class have an unfair advantage over other students-they learn the tricks. Pitzer doesn't rely on the SAT as much as some larger schools do,&I think we should continue that--focus on the essays, apps.,letters of rec. etc. |
| 107 | |
| 108 | The
SAT is one type of data for Admissions use. SAT scores can be weighed and
used intelligently, not only stupidly.
In some cases it is very useful (high score, crummy grades -- maybe this student's grades aren't the whole story); in others not (low score, high grades -- SAT is not what matters, here there's real achievement). The scores help if Admissions knows nothing at all about a high school -- a sort of reality check on the school's grading system. Admissions is not so dumb that they don't know that SAT underpredicts college success more for women than it does for men, and other research of this type. Admissions also knows that SAT verbal scores, since the SAT is a timed test, make no sense for people whose native language is not English. Admissions should use the SAT judiciously, not formulaically. But it is false to say that the SAT never adds additional information. Yale (home of George W. Bush, the affirmative action baby) can abolish the use of the SAT if it wants. If we did so, it would make us look even less selective. |
| 109 | if sat's were to be abolished, admissions would have to be MUCH more personal... |
| 110 | While I somewhat believe that standardized tests do not accurately depict a student's merits and intellectual ability, I am wondering, if SAT scores were no longer used as criteria for admission, what would replace it? As with other factors used in deciding admission, such as the level of courses taken in high school, the academic rigor of the high school, etc., there should also be a balance, such as also evaluating ACT scores. If another standardized test was created that was more quantitative and tested the knowledge and intellect of the student rather than, like the SAT, how well they take a test, then the new test would prove more favorable. On the other hand, an SAT score may, (but not always), show the student's dedication for success, especially if you agree with the general consensus that these standardized tests test only how well you take a test. In other words, there is room for improvement depending on how much time and effort they put in practicing. I believe there should be questions raised if a student has an extremely low SAT score. On the other hand, I believe that there are probably better types of criteria available for judging the potential of a student, but don't necessarily agree that test scores of any kind should be abolished completely. Also, what are your goals as a college? Prestige? High ranking on the U.S. New and World Report? Affirmative action-like considerations? These elements may be effected if the SAT was abolished completely. This debate is complex and seemingly neverending. |
| 111 | Don't
know should be a possible category in the survey.
Quite a few questions ask two things at once: quality, status?? and are hard to answer. Being strong-armed by USNews' survey is not the reason we should or shouldn't retain SAT's as a criterion for admission. SAT's are still a rough way to assess readiness for college level work. Students should be admitted within a range and then provided with extra support if they have other promising qualities. Grade inflation, especially in suburban schools, is more of a problem I feel that the SAT, which can be in this way a relatively leveling tool among advantaged and educationally disadvantaged students. It is a flawed tool but a better one we haven't got. I feel we need more aggressive outreach to find and recruit students we would like to have at Pitzer and many of these will be high achieving and high-performing students in high school. I feel that their records and recommendations should be able to overcome somewhat lower SAT's but that the SAT should also be used. The survey does not indicate what a "low" score might be and/or whether Pitzer would want to admit any and all students regardless of academic performance--like Britain's Open University. I feel that this might be an appealing goal democratically, but it is impractical and foolish for us. It would kill Pitzer as a selective school, a member of the Claremont Colleges, and would jeopardize the school's status as an institution that offers high quality UG education and attracts very qualified and dedicated faculty. We cannot afford this level of risk. It is the legacy and status of being 'selective' and striving, no matter how we do it, that the college, admissions, administrators, and others need to protect in the policies that we put in place. |
| 112 | S.a.t. exams have been proven to be biased. There is no way they can measure effort, struggle, perseverance, and years of oppression. |
| 113 | I would rather see activism aimed at improving the fairness of the SAT than dropping it as an admission criteria at Pitzer. I think dropping the SAT would increase perceptions of low quality students and programs at Pitzer. |
| 114 | We should continue to use it whiel we recognize its flaws. |
| 115 | another form of apllicability. Personal interviews and essays are important. Personality tests: something to see if they will thrive in the community. |
| 116 | The
SAT needs to be waited much less in the admissions process. I have a learning
disability and I perform poorly on standerdized tests. Many people do not
do well on these types of tests. In addition I improved my score by 200
hundred points by taking an sat pre class.
Josh Lee X76076 |
| 117 | It seems that the S.A.T. measure primarily: one's test'taking abilities, and one's economic status.(i.e. can pay the cost of taking the test, can pay for training in order to do well on the test, can pay for quality education, can attend a learning institue where college is even encouraged as an option.) As long as these are the things that are practically all necessary to acheive high S.A.T. scores, it should have such importance placed on it as criterion for getting to come to this school! |
| 118 | I have a 4.0 at pitzer and I had a 4.0 in high school but I had a pretty low score on the SAT, some people simply dont take tests well. |
| 119 | The SAT scores are ONLY one of many factors that are taken into consideration during the admission process. While high school academic performance is by far the best predictor of academic success in college, the SAT or ACT scores give us an additional point to considered. For example, the test scores could either confirm or disconfirm the applicant's preparedness to do college level work. It should also be understood that test scores are proportionally less influential in admission decisions at Pitzer than they might be at another college or university. |
| 120 | I believe having S.A.T. scores are important. However, I strongly feel that it shouldn't be the ONLY criteria for admission to Pitzer. |
| 121 | I don't believe sat scores should be the highest determining factor for admission, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be used at all. Pitzer doesn't use the sat scores in that way, but they can be used to supplement a transcript. If the scores are low, Pitzer regards essay and overall achievement with more importance anyway. I believe they should continue to be used in the way they are currently used: one factor among many more personal factors indicating various abilities. It does not signify overall academic achievement, merely one aspect of academic achievement and should be considered along with the other indicators of achievement. One comment: I think the questions were slightly leading in this survey. It seems that the way these questions were worded indicated a strong wish to end SAT use here. You even asked the same question twice:2 and 9. Just a thought, but surveys should be kept completely free of prejudice, otherwise you have committed experimenter bias. By the way, I think this is an interesting debate, so good work overall. |
| 122 | The SAT is a valid tool when used in conjunction with other necessary admission elements. ie.. the essays, the overall character building evidence, the experience of the applicant ect.. |
| 123 | I think its ridiculous that so many schools completely cut people out of the running for admissions because of SAT scores. Just because you had one bad Saturday morning of test taking, you should not be denied admission to a school. |
| 124 | I do agree that the SAT test is prejorative in some aspects, but at the same time, it represents the best way of measuring student achievement today. I would agree with a diminished role of the SAT in considering applicants, but not a total disregard. I do believe that other factors are more important such as classes taken, extracurriculur activities, and leadership roles. Strong involvement in these areas can justify a lower SAT score (although this is usually not the case). We should attack the cause of the problem (namely the test itself) rather than the effect that it has. |
| 125 | Pitzer is a socially conscious school. We should use community activities as a strong indicator to show if the student would do well here |
| 126 | What other options does the Admissions department have? |
| 127 | I believe that the SATs are the closest things we have that allows comparisson between students. However, I know that Pitzer does more than just look at those scores. These tests are just one measure of a student and it is up to the admissions committee to determine if a applicant is qualified or not, but I do not believe that the SATs should be abolished from Pitzer's admissions protocol. |
| 128 | To me SATs are informative only at the extremes: very high scores (maybe 650+ per test)and very low scores (maybe under 400 or so) are probably better indicators of ability than the vast middle range. Roughly between 400-600 or so, to me the scores do not tell you much at all. That's where the majority are, so perhaps in that light, they should not be used if the scores are in that range. In short, SATs can be used as advisory and be especially helpful at the low and high ends. |
| 129 | I
do not feel that abolishing the SAT would lower the standards of Pitzer.
There would be a larger applicant pool of well qualified individuals to
choose from.
The SAT is in no way a measure of intelligence. It puts large sectors of the population at a disadvantage when trying to apply for Colleges who have every right to pursue a eduation. I am outraged by widespread use of standardized tests. I feel that they hinder people much more then they could ever benefit any potential student. |
| 130 | the first time I scored 390 on my verbal and the last time I scored 490. I believe the 100 pt increase is due to all the SAT classes I took after the first test. (The classes caused money that some would otherwise not be able to afford.) I am fluent in English, however, both of my scores would indicate differently. |
| 131 | Why should be important for admissions to get all those students who are good at taking standardized exams? Can we really predict who will succeed in college based on an exam? We already know how biased standard exams againts working class kids and people of color, therefore why insist on assesing students with quantitative obsolete tools? |
| 132 | not all people do well on standardized tests, but it gives and idea and should be used along with other means to decide who should be accepted. There are cases where students don't do well grade wise in High School for many reasons other than their ability and drive so standardized tests such as the S.A.T. can give a better picture of the students' academic achievment. |
| 133 | i think the SAT/ACT should be looked at and taken into consideradtion with less emphasis on admissions. instead of bing like the 2nd most important thing, it should be the 4th or so. i think that pitzer needs to place more emphasis on essays and interviews. if we are such a school concerned with social responsibility, how come it is not a part of the application process. we should be socially responsible and look for acurate ways to compare students and take into consideration things like potential at pitzer regardless of the past. why is ther no essay on what social responsibility means to perspective students and how they are socially responsible? i think these things (trying to determine the potential of the individual to thrive at pitzer, should be most important test scores least important!! |
| 134 | I think that abolishing the use of the SAT as a criterion of admission might give a lot of bright, creative students who were misrepresented by their scores the opportunity to contribute great things to the Pitzer community. I do, however, recognize some negative implications that might result from such a change, such as the degredation of Pitzer's prestige and/or status within national college community. Such considerations might seem smug, exclusive, and/or elitist, but no one wants a degree from a shoddy college and it might harm the college financially, causing decreased opportunities for professors and students alike. But, as I mentioned initially, I do not think that it is fair to exclude intelligent people from joining this community because of a highly biased standardized test! This campus is so homogenous as it is--which is especially sad because we are a lot more diverse than a lot of schools--and we could really benefit from a more varied population, which may be precluded by the SAT. |
| 135 | abolish-abolish-abolish |
| 136 | S.A.T. tests are irrelevant to the type of standards pitzer seems to uphold or the type of people that pitzer should be procuring. pitzer is not a competitive, greedy, rat-race establishment; it shines a light on talent, social responsibility, thought, and determination. |
| 137 | I think admissions committees should make more use of looking at all academic achievements of a student to get an idea of how "smart" he /she is, rather than just the SAT |
| 138 | Do a study about SAT scores and the GPA of students over the four years they are at Pitzer. |
| 139 | The SAT needs to be looked at in the proper context when admission decisions are made. It is clear that the SAT is closely correlated with socioeconomic status and race, but the fact remains that it is valuable in helping compare students from similar personal and educational backgrounds . |
| 140 | The SAT should be a way to measure basic skills that a student does need to succeed in college, however, the test lacks writing skills which is measured with the application essay. There are flaws with the SAT but there is nothing to replace the measure since high schools vary so much from area to area and state to state. There has to be some specific criterion that all students should have done to measure one another against each other. |
| 141 | The SAT is a measure of how well people take standardized tests. Not usually a measure of how much people know. |
| 142 | When I first came to Pitzer, I believed that the SAT was a strong measure of academic aptitude. But I have met many people who scored low on the exam but are very intelligent. |
| 143 | It seems like abolishing the s.a.t. would require providing some other measure of qualification in the application . . what would that be? While there is no arguing with the fact that white students simply make better scores on the sat, I feel like there are extremely complex factors behind this phenomena that primarily have to do with class. The more manageble question to me is concering the negligent pedagogy that sets up one learning style to succeed to the detriment of all others: Tests are often only a measure of your test-taking capabilities |
| 144 | Although
the SAT is very biased, i think it is necessary in order maintain Pitzer's
image.
Perhaps the solution is not to abolish the SAT but, rather, to put less emhasis on it. This doesn't mean admitting students with lower SATs but, appreciating each applicant as an individual and recognizing the differences in oppotunity that each has had, and which will (most likely) be reflected in their SAT scores. |
| 145 | I
think the SAT is one of many factors to use in evaluating applications
but by no means do I believe that it should be the only criteria or even
the most important criteria. Essays, high school records, teacher recommendations,
interviews, hobbies and other activities etc. are all important in getting
a holistic view of a student. A high SAT score is not the best indicator
of a student who embodies the goals held by Pitzer College. The SAT score
is just one tool to consider.
I think the whole process of reviewing an application is rather crazy. What is to prevent a student from having someone else write their essay? Who is to say that a student participated in a club because of a sincere interest in the topic or because it would look good on a college application. Having survived my first child going through the college application process, I can say that he is very happy at the place that he selected and that accepted him. His SAT scores were good but not something that got him automatically admitted. He applied to 8 schools (at at cost of over $450 for application fees) and was admitted to 2 of the 8. I think the entire reason that his current school accepted him was that he and the interviewer really hit it off. So after 12 years of school, much anxiety and stress over the application process, a substantial financial cost that I could not really afford, etc. etc., it probabaly all came down to a 30 minute interview that made the difference. He was not able to interview at the 6 schools that did not accept him. What if he had had a bad day on the day of his interview? What the interviewer was having a bad day that day? It all seems very random to me. Finally, I think more than anything, having a few criteria that help to whittle down some of the applications to a manageable number is needed. I do not envy the people in the Admissions office that must select the incoming class from the huge number of applications. At least a minimal number on the SAT in conjunction with a minimal number for the high school GPA helps to narrow the pool to a manageable number. |
| 146 | It is a good tester to see how people learn, but to me it is West Coast Bias, for east coast schools teach it in their regular classes making it easier for them |
| 147 | It is a good tester to see how people learn, but to me it is West Coast Bias, for east coast schools teach it in their regular classes making it easier for them |
| 148 | Some people have trouble taking tests like the SAT because they become nervous or things like that. Therefore it is not a good measure of one's abilities, it is mostly a measure of how good they take the SAT. |
