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| 1 |
the sat's like any
other test doesn't show all the students capabilities.
personally, i know a lot of people that are very smart that
are just not good test takers. just because you get lower test
grades that doesnt' mean that you arne't as smart as the
person who does great on tests. |
| 2 |
The SAT is a
standard way of measuring students all over the country. The
worth of a GPA can fluctuate depending on which school the
student attended. I do not think that SAT results are an
absolute in ranking all students but that is why several
criteria are considered in the admissions process, not simply
the SAT scores. |
| 3 |
The SAT can be a
useful tool to compare with other factors. It should not be
used as a primary means of accepting or rejecting prospective
students, however. Previous education, GPA and an essay are
more important, but a high SAT score and low GPA may be
indicative of an intelligent person but poor student.
|
| 4 |
the possibility of
using them after admission |
| 5 |
The SAT is a test
that challenges a student's test taking ability. There are
students (like me, for example) that are just bad at taking
tests under extremely restrictive time conditions. This
inability does not mean that I, or any other student, is
unintelligent or incapable of succeeding with great success at
higher education institutions. |
| 6 |
I tutor high
school students for both the SAT and the ACT verbal tests, and
see the many discontinuities between the educational standards
of public schools (such as the one I went to, Berkley High)
and skills and knowledge required to obtain a "good" score on
the SAT. Not only is the SAT biased towards white
native-standard-written-English speaking students, it requires
skills not taught at most schools (multiple choice strategy,
and the ability to find similar relationships between things.)
Additionally, between the two tests I believe that to find the
true "academic" level of a student, the ACT is harder and
analytic of more "academic" english skills such as sentence
structure, grammar, and punctuation. (I can't speak to the
math because I've had no exposure to that part of the ACT.) I
would recommend at least switching from requirement of the SAT
to requirement of ACT scores for admission eligibility at
Pitzer. |
| 7 |
Some people do
very well on tests like the SAT.
Those people (all people)
should be allowed to use their SAT scores to gain admission to
Pitzer in accordance with the current admission requirements.
If people are given a CHOICE between SATs and another
method of presenting their qualifications, so much the better.
|
| 8 |
I for one do not
hold the SATs in high regard. It really doesn't measure a
person's ability to do well in college. Moreover, I recall
that a study showed that the SATs only truly measure how well
a student will do in his or her first year of college, not the
entire four years. However, despite my dislike for the SATs,
there really doesn't seem to be another good standardized way
to measure students across the country. Grades only tell how
well a student does at their particular school. So many
schools have grade inflation and there are schools that are
far more difficult than others. Therefore, even though I
understand the major flaws of the SAT, unless there is a
reasonable alternative, I don't believe it should be
abolished. |
| 9 |
I believe that the
SAT is a pointless test, HOWEVER I also am of the opinion that
many do not take Pitzer seriously, including its own students.
To remove the SATs completely from our application process
would further the misconception that Pitzer is a joke, and
frankly make me start to agree with those who argue that
Pitzer is a joke school. |
| 10 |
The use of the SAT
is just one piece of information used in the admission
decision, it should be kept because the more information you
have, the better. |
| 11 |
If it is used as
just one of several criteria for admission, and if it is
recognized that the error/uncertainty in any individual's
score can easily vary by 100pts. in either direction, then the
SAT can be a useful guide for admissions. It is not so much a
measure of ability as it is a measure of the
training/education one has received. Hence, if someone has a
low math SAT score, it is difficult to distinguish whether
this results from poor training or poor aptitude. Regardless,
though, it does indicate that the student will be in need of
additional preparatory help if they are admitted to Pitzer!
And hence it is useful if for no other purpose than
identifying such needs. |
| 12 |
When serving on
the admissions committee of a graduate department, several
students had excellent GPAs but substandard GRE scores. As it
turned out, they were all from the same school. This
highlights one reason that the SAT is necessary. Without it,
the only numerical criterion that would be used in admission
would be GPAs, and students with inflated grades would find
themselves in a college environment for which they are not
prepared. Some have argued that the SATs discourage diversity
in the academy. Ironically, the SATs were first used to admit
students on the basis of merit rather than on class or
pedigree. It may indeed be true that a test based on merit may
decrease diversity and reveal inequities in the educational
opportunies of certain groups. But the correct response is not
to ignore these inequities, thereby bringing students to
Pitzer who are not prepared. Instead, we (educators, policy
makers etc.) need to work to close the education gap. HIGHER
standards. Bonus pay to draw high quality teachers into
economically depressed areas. Accountability programs to
identify and reward schools which are able to educate
underpriveleged students. Desemination of proven techniques.
We do not serve students by setting them up to fail. Instead,
we need to prepare them to succeed. |
| 13 |
I think the SAT is
a valid tool when considering applicants to Pitzer College. I
think it is telling of giving a general idea of what academic
level a student has achieved, and is also helpful when
comparing Pitzer to other colleges. If we would like to
continue to move up into the Tier one rankings, and become
more well known as an extremely competitive institution of
higher learning we must keep the SAT as part of our
applicatons process. In addition, we need to increase the
standards of admission and increase our average SAT and GPA as
well. This will give us better retention and happy students
which will lead to a better academic areana, and more
prosperity. |
| 14 |
think about time
and energy and money- which we have little of. Is there truly
a more efficient way of evaluating whethera student is a good
candidate for this school (that is as long as other factors
are taken into consideration). I definitly strogly disagree to
the SATs as the only criterion for admissions- but it is not
at this school) |
| 15 |
I would like to
find an alternative method for considering students who do
have high academic achievement and who would do well on an
SAT-type test not to be forgotten. It is true that the SAT is
biased, but excellent students do also perform very well on
the SAT and it would benefit Pitzer to recognize these
students as well as those who the test discriminates against.
|
| 16 |
This is such a
complicated issue, and i am happy that it is being examined.
The SAT is not perfect but I do feel that it is valid. I am
not vehemently against the SAT at Pitzer because I think it
does provide some info. I also think that it would put us even
lower in competition with other schools. The competition
itself is not OK, but I also want to graduate from the best
Pitzer available. I think that lowering the priority of the
SAT, or even making it optional might be a better tool.
|
| 17 |
I have taught and
advised full-time at the college level for many years. While I
have never found the SAT's to be conclusive about anything, I
have always found them to be helpful, particularly for
advising and especially when the scores are extreme at one end
or the other. I'm therefore opposed to the removal of any
measure which has proved, for me at least, to be helpful in
the performance of my professional duties. |
| 18 |
use them, but dont
value them as extremely important |
| 19 |
The more
information you have on a student when deciding whether or not
to admit them, the better. The admissions commitee is smart
and incisive enough to realize when a student has the
potential to do great things in college, even if their SAT
score is low. |
| 20 |
i think that the
sat in the admission process of pitzer does not weigh as
heavily as everyone thinks, other things are taken into
account such as community involvement, high school grades etc.
the sat is still important to maintain a certain quality of
students and prestige in colleges. if all of the colleges and
universitites decided to abolish the sat then i would urge
pitzer to do so as well. for pitzer to get rid of the sat's
now only means that we are alienating ourselves more from the
academic world. i do not think that abolishing the sat's would
be positive for our retention rate. it is already hard enough
to transfer, seeing as how pitzer classes do not transfer well
to other college and universities. the absence of sat scores
would make it even more difficult, and potential stuedents
wouldnt even give pitzer a try. also, pitzer is on its way to
becoming a very prestigous college, and our place in the
academic world is fragile. i would think that abolishing the
sats would be damaging to our place and future place in
academia. |
| 21 |
will eliminating
SAT eliminate choice? that is, for some people SAT may be
better than grades and eliminating might not give them
options. Let's make SAT optional, rather than eliminating it.
Why should we be telling the professionals in the
admission office what to do? I don't want them telling me how
to teach. If they want to have this option, then they should
have it. It also suggests that we don't trust them to do their
job or to put SAT into context. Clearly they do this with
holistic admissions policy.
A vote against SAT is also
a vote against trusting the Admissions Office. |
| 22 |
I would like to
know what the motivation for banning the SAT is. My
understanding is that it is not a large part of the
addmissions process. What motivation is there (until there is
a non-gender, non-race biased test) in banning what is really
only a tool...even if it is flawed, it still has some merit.
|
| 23 |
People do well on
the SATs depending on whether or not they learn how to take
the test well. It is not only biased by ethnicity but also by
gender. Admissions should take hard work into consideration
not socioeconimic background! |
| 24 |
if we take one of
the first steps to abolish the SAT as criteria for admission
(first as in one of the first colleges to do it), we will
recieve mixed reviews. some people will say "wow, way to go,
the SAT should be abolished", but then some people are going
to think less of the college. instead of seeing the real
reason we are doing it0 b/c we think it is unjust, they are
going to see us as a liberal slacker school who don't have
high standards for admission. we will get slacker high school
seniors who think they will get in if they write a bullshit
liberal "feel-good" essay. eventhough the SATs are bias, they
are the best method we currently have for evaluating
applicants. unless we came up with an alternative testing
device or an extensive application, we should not abolish use
of the SATs. right now the SATs are not the most important
thing when applying to Pitzer. this is how it should stay. it
should be considered in evaluating a potential student but
should not be a deciding factor.
|
| 25 |
I think for now it
is the best way available, but if we could replace it with a
better method then we should. |
| 26 |
The S.A.T.,
although it does not reflect how WELL a student might do in
school in my opinion, DOES, in fact, reflect how MOTIVATED a
student is in terms of his/her ability to work hard at the
time in which the test was taken. However, the S.A.T. tends to
be administered during a very turbulent period in a teenager's
life (late high school), a time when most students have NO
idea what they want to do with their life and are not as
motivated as they will become later in their college career.
This is why I think the S.A.T. does not reflect how well a
student will do in college. |
| 27 |
the S.A.Ts put
peoples hopes down. It really shouldn't be what the colleges
go by because the student may be bad at taking tests. Because
the student is bad at taking tests doesn't mean that they're a
bad student. |
| 28 |
I this is a major
move that is a chance for Pitzer to show that it lives up to
its claim of social responsibility. We would set an example
and hopefully, a standard for the rest to follow.
|
| 29 |
personally i have
yet to see any proof of descrimination (excepting that of
class) particularly with respect to particular questions. if
someone could say, "this question is racially biased because.
. ." i might be more inclined toward thinking that the test
should not be used, but as of yet, it is a fair measure in
addition to the other standard criterion. |
| 30 |
the SAT should be
required for admission to Pitzer. however, a particular test
score shouldn't be. many other aspects of a student can be
evaluated to see if he/she is Pitzer quality. the SAT can
still say a lot about a student. if a student has a reasonably
low score, but has other above average qualifications, his/her
chances shouldn't be as high, in my opinion. however,
exceptions can, and should be made. |
| 31 |
I think it's
important to compare test scores to Socioeconomic status. It
is difficult to find a quantitative measure that compares
students, but with all the faults that have been found in the
SAT, Pitzer should not continue to use it. |
| 32 |
The SAT score
should not be completely eliminated but should not be a heavy
part of the admission criteria. Admissions should just look
for EXTREMELY low scores. |
| 33 |
The SAT is a guide
line (standard) by which adminstrators can measure students
equally without the bias of race etc.. It is often overlooked
that the SAT is measured statistically which helps to get ride
of human errors in judgement about others. |
| 34 |
Most schools use
the SAT's and to not at Pitzer may lower expectaions of
students and from Pitzer as a whole. |
| 35 |
SAT should be
considering as a secondary consideration of the process after
looking at the student as a person, a social being.
|
| 36 |
have both SAT (or
ACT) in addition to the SAT II be required |
| 37 |
The SAT is a fine
way to identify outstanding students from every ethnic group.
Thereafter other methods can be used. |
| 38 |
the SATs are the
only standardized part of the admissions process, they provide
a good starting point in judging admissions. pitzer currently
does a very good job of including the SATs but not relying
solely on them. If you look, the average SAT at pitzer is
pretty low compared to its status as a college. Plus, don't
hurt the people who do well on the SATs by taking away that
form of praise, unless you want to discount extracurricular
activites and such. |
| 39 |
Whether or not it
gives preference to rich students from rich suburbs who can
afford priviate tutoring |
| 40 |
To begin, I think
some kind of 'not sure' or 'agree with both sides' answer
should have been allowed on the above questions to make the
survey accurate. Although I do not think that the SAT is a
good measure of intelligence and I think it does prejudice, I
do understand the argument as well that Pitzer should keep it
for now. I went to the College Council Meeting and after
hearing both sides speak, it seems clear to me that IF there
is a possibility that abolishing the SAT will in anyway hurt
Pitzer it should not be done. The real question to me seems to
be whether or not we are willing to be hypocritical and play
the college political game. The truth of the matter is that
Pitzer currently barely uses the SAT in the admissions
process. This being the case, it would make sense just to drop
it, but it seeing that the affects of such an action are
unknown, I understand why many would prefer to keep it. On the
other hand, for a college that advocates social responsibility
this view is very hypocritical. However, in any political kind
of situation it is necessary to cover one's butt, so to speak,
no matter the ideals that may be possessed. I think what
really needs to be evaluated is whether or not we are willing
to take a risk based on our ideals. This is what should be
argued, NOT the SAT. I would love to see the data of the
colleges that have stopped using the SAT. Have their rankings
gone down? Most students hate the SAT and don't want it,
however those same students most likely do not understand what
risks and thus affects may be involved for this college. I
think that the student body needs to be better educated before
a survey such as this is sent out. The data this survey
collects represents many who do not really know what they are
voting for. A decision like this is extremely important and I
do not feel that I, or any other student for that matter, have
been presented with enough information to make a decision
either way. |
| 41 |
I don't think that
the SAT should be abolished but I do think that it should not
carry as much weight as it does. Other forms of determining a
person's merit are much more useful. The SAT's tell us who has
the money, and who doesn't. SAT prep courses cost thousands of
dollars, and they work. I should know. I took one, and I know
others that did as well, and their scores shot up too.
|
| 42 |
The SAT may not be
a predictor in many Pitzer courses, but it is definitely a
predictor in the sciences. |
| 43 |
Kids like me who
are smart but don't fit the mold of our standard education
system, tend to end up with low GPA's and rely on our SAT
scores to get in to college, mean I got a 1330 and I didn't
even finish most of the sections. That definitely shows a
level of intellectual ability not reflected by GPA.
|
| 44 |
The SAT's do not
reflect ones ability to succeed in college! |
| 45 |
I feel that while
the SAT is a biased and slightly unfair test, it is the best
thing (other than the ACT) that colleges and universities have
for comparing applicants on a large scale. I also feel that
the addmissions councelors at Pitzer do understand that the
SAT is an unfair and biased test and take that into
consideration when reviewing applicants. Perhaps, instead of
abolishing the SAT, Pitzer should include a note in its
application stating that admittance to the college is not
strongly based on SAT scores, that the unfairness of the test
is taken into account, but that the importance of the test is
understood and therefore scores are still required. Either
that, or students should be able to make the choice between
submitting SAT or ACT scores. |
| 46 |
I believe that it
is a useful tool in deciding who is admitted to Pitzer
College. To abolish it would elimante a standardized way to
judge applicants. I fear the day when students who take what
my high schoool college counselor refered to as "underwater
basket weaving" will be able to get into Pitzer College.
|
| 47 |
I believe that it
is a useful tool in deciding who is admitted to Pitzer
College. To abolish it would elimante a standardized way to
judge applicants. I fear the day when students who take what
my high schoool college counselor refered to as "underwater
basket weaving" will be able to get into Pitzer College.
|
| 48 |
The SAT's may be
racist, but they are more standardized than grades... If we
are going to abolish the SAT, we need to have something to
replace it... the students that apply to Pitzer come from very
diverse backgrounds, and we need to have a way to judge people
against each other... Plus, the admissions commitee knows
enough about each applicant to take into consideration a
student's background-- and to know whether they had an
advantaged or disadvantaged education. |
| 49 |
Why should
admissions office be deprived of one piece of information?
According to what faculty members who know about the
process have said in open meetings, the admissions office uses
the SAT
to diversify the entering class and to make sure
people admitted can handle college-level work. The SAT is BY
FAR not the only measure used, just one.
If the admissions
office cannot be trusted to handle admissions honestly and not
to be discriminatory, abolishing the SAT won't make any
difference. But I do NOT NOT NOT believe that they cannot be
trusted. On the contrary.
If the SAT is kicked out of all
colleges in the nation there would need to be something to
take its place. Otherwise high schools would have worse grade
inflation and teachers would recommend students more highly.
And they would have 'all students are first in
their
classes' syndrome, as now there can be as many as 20
valedictorions at once in many schools. |
| 50 |
It is important to
have some measure of knowledge, and it is easier when applying
to college to have one test rather than a large requirement to
enhance the general application |
| 51 |
The SAT is a
measure of economic status which leads to racial bias since
non-whites make less money in America |
| 52 |
It should be
considered but not a top priority for admissions, people can
do poor on a test and still bring a lot to the community of
Pitzer college. Students should however be willing to prove
they will work hard in college and bring knowledge and
diversity to the community. If there is a better way to
suggest academic success in college bring it on, however right
now it seems like the SAT is all we have, which sucks. It
should be looked at but people should still be able to gain
admitence through other means than simply high SAT scores.
|
| 53 |
The SAT can be
useful for students with low class scores (GPAs) to
demonstrate their possible academic capabilities to a school.
However, the empahsis placed on SAT's seemed excessive as it
is perfectly possible for students who produce excellent work
in the class room to struggle with standardized tests. The
SAT's can be a useful tool in examing an possible student to a
school but it is not the ONLY tool that can be used.
|
| 54 |
These questions
take a complex matter and require that we provide simple
answers. In this way, the survey is manipulative and
unhelpful--like a great deal of survey research more
generally.
As for the SAT and its use at Pitzer...In
the U.S., the school system contributes to the reproduction of
both race and class stratification. That the school system
does this is quite awful. And the SAT is clearly a part of
this larger system of race and class reproduction. But would
abolishing the SAT at Pitzer do anything significant to
contest that system? No. The whole debate is a time-consuming
distraction from a serious politics of education.
|
| 55 |
It is not in
Pitzer's or students' interests to admit students who will
fail. I am concerned that dropping the SAT requirement will
result in the admission of more students who cannot succeed in
the Claremont Colleges atmosphere. |
| 56 |
As a premedical
advisor who has to pay attention to MCAT scores-it is
imperative that our student be able to function in these test
in order to enter graduate school, Medicine, and Law. Pitzer
currently scores the lowest of the three schools at JSD on the
MCAT, has the lowest admissions to medical school, and I would
hate to see this trend worsen. |
| 57 |
It is important to
consider the amount of wasted time students spend studying for
this test. Private tutors and expensive classes can make a
difference in score. Money is an issue, and by any unobjective
test it shouldn't be. |
| 58 |
I do believe that
if the S.A.T. should be in the admissions process, for those
who get low scores, they should have a mandatory interview. I
know that I am not good at tests and I have family who is not
good at testing, so I would hate to see myself, or my family,
deprived of any opportunity because we cannot pass a stupid
test. |
| 59 |
In order to fairly
judge whether or not to abolish the SAT as a criterion for
admissions, there need be more than just national studies that
show the SAT to reflect institutional bias in the educational
system. It must also be shown that the way Pitzer utilizes the
SAT also relects these institutional biases. Also, it must be
shown that the other admissions criteria are more valid
indicators of success. Also, it must be shown that the other
criteria are less reflective of instutional bias. This has yet
to be done. That being said, there is not enough information
to make an educated decison. Since that is the case, I would
advocate either posponing voting on the proposal to abolish
the SAT criterion for admissions or voting to maintain the
status quo until such a time as that a more indept study of
institutional bias in the educational system shows that the
SAT are worse than the other criteria. Based on the
information that we currently have, it is concievable that,
while biased as it probably is, the SAT may be less biased
than the other criteria. |
| 60 |
if the sat is
abolished admissions will need much more time attention and
consideration on both ends |
| 61 |
the racial and
socio-economic biases in the SAT and those who have access to
expensive prep courses vs. those who don't. Also how SAT does
not measure success, just pure intelligence of a particular
kind...someone might be extremely intelligent but not a good
test taker or someone who possess great learning skills and
would contribute to Pitzer but doesn't have as much raw
intelligence. |
| 62 |
It is one type of
valuable data. Only one.
It is better not to throw away a
piece of data which can help you in some cases.
It can
provide a "floor," for instance, if a score lower than some
number, without mitigating circumstances or other evidence,
might suggest that the chances of successfully finishing
college are small. Or
a high score might suggest promise
in a
candidate whose teachers trashed him or her
because of the candidate's not conforming to
stupid
school rules. And so forth.
The Admissions Office should
be aware and I
believe is aware that the S. A. T. I
is
better correlated with some things and
less well with
others -- gender and grades
for instance -- and of course
take that
into account while evaluating candidates.
|
| 63 |
I'm concerned
about Pitzer being at the bottom of the ladder as far as the
5C's and that we not in the first tier of U.S.News. That feels
real bad, because I think we are better than that.
|
| 64 |
I think that the
SAT should still be used in the deciding factor for admissions
but not regarded as strongly. |
| 65 |
The SAT has
limited value. While I believe that it should be used as a
component of the admissions process, it should be used
carefully and not used as a major factor in admissions. In
addition to its other flaws, the SAT tests a student's ability
to take a test more than it tests a student's knowledge.
|
| 66 |
Standardized
testing is an inherently flawed exercise in intelligence
testing. It lacks construct validity and really is skewed
towards a section of a population that is high in
socio-economic status. One sees this when college bound
students that take preparatory classes do better statistcally
versus those who do not take those same courses prior to
testing. The fact that they cost around $1000.00 dollars might
discourage those of lower socio-economic status from taking
the courses. But, beyond anything else, the nature of the test
is flawed. It has very high statistical reliability, yet
hardly anybody knows if it is gathering the information it
purports to gather. |
| 67 |
what would replace
it? i hate the sat
but fear we'd lose standing
|
| 68 |
To put it simply,
I think we should have the SAT a requirement on the
application, just to have the name of Pitzer be saved. But not
to have it be a major part of the decision process.
|
| 69 |
In my years of
teaching experience, I have known many students who scored low
on their SAT scores but excelled in higher education. SAT
scores do not measure a person's efforts, experiences, or
motivations. SAT's also do not take into account a person's
background and the many obstacles they may have faced in life.
|
| 70 |
The SAT is not
perfect, but it is the only measure of acheivement that we
have right now. I am aware that it is racially biased (from
first-hand experience, i went to a mostly minortiy high school
where SAT scores were not very high at all) but until
something better comes along, I think that the SAT should be
considered, but not the determining factor of admission to
Pitzer College. |
| 71 |
The SAT should not
be the main thing considered in college acceptance, but it
shouldn't be abolished completely. Admission to college should
be based on classes taken, grades, SAT or ACT, activities,
leadership, community service and other factors. If a person
has a poor SAT score but is strong in other categories, they
could still be accepted to Pitzer College. |
| 72 |
Pitzer's
admissions literature was very clear to me when I applied,
that the SAT is one criteria among many that is assessed. This
is fine with me and that is the way that it should remain.
|
| 73 |
I do think if the
SAT were abolished that it would be important to implement
programs that not only evaluate student scholastic levels when
they arrive at Pitzer (no matter if 1st year or transfer) as
well as have a serious program developed to assist students in
getting up to speed it they are not at scholastic levels that
would engender success at Pitzer. Even a year or more long
program to get students up to par in math and writing/reading
skills would prove invaluable. I think it could make Pitzer an
innovator in higher education, as well as a magnet for people
whose life experience would be a much needed addition to this
mostly white privileged student body! |
| 74 |
Of course
standards like grades and test scores are largely arbitrary at
best and discriminating at worse, but the larger education
community has failed to provide workable substitutes for
measuring knowledge acquistion and learning milestones that
the majority of our society thinks are practical and
neccessary utilities for functioning in the world. But the
nature of this knowledge set and the milestones that are
important is also ultimately up for grabs. So given that there
is very little consensus about the goal of public education
and even of structured education in general, how can you begin
to discuss then the viability of the tools we use to measure
that elusive goal? Of course we can safely say that the S.A.T.
does not measure or reflect what we think a Pitzer education
should be, but what good is taking that stance in light of the
lack of workable measurement options in the community at
large? Without a concurrent movement for change in the
education community at large, entirely discontinuing SAT
admissions standards will only hurt our ability to communicate
our own academic mission. It seems far more pragmatic to push
for change in the larger community by pushing the envelope
with how we use the scores, rather than getting rid of them
altogether. My understanding is that we don't have a strict
cut off rate, nor are we shooting to achieve some stellar
average acceptance, but rather that we review every part of
each application. We should also work to communicate our
approach to prospective students, in order to better encourage
students to apply who might otherwise be deterred.
|
| 75 |
Not reflective of
the students merritts. Although it is a means to benchmark
students. So SATs with other scores are helpful. |
| 76 |
That discussion
continue, with a special committee set up to look at what
other small liberal arts colleges have done, the effects of
making SATs optional or prohibited, etc. That we not rush in
to a decision without having done careful research. Pitzer
uses all of its admissions criteria in a holistic and benign
way. We should make this very clear in our Admissions
literature. |
| 77 |
Pitzer is to new
of a school to be doing this. I feel that we can not afford
this as of yet. |
| 78 |
How do SAT scores
really contribute to our understanding of students/prospects?
Or are we using the scores to serve another institutions
agenda?
Is there a positive correlation, at Pitzer,
between SAT scores and academic achievements?
|
| 79 |
the SAT have
terrible affects on people's self-esteem and confidence in
applying to school's if they don't do well. SAT's do not
reflect intelligence, ability or the effort that people put
into academics. They are racially and socioeconomocally biased
and that has no place at a school like pitzer. |
| 80 |
The SAT and other
similar aptitude tests are flawed measures of student
ability--more and more studies are showing that they are
biased in favor of certain races and classes, and they are
definitely linked to economic opportunity (taking a prep class
can significantly improve your scores by teaching you
test-taking strategies, as i know from personal experience,
but these courses are much too expensive for many to afford).
The SAT measures a student's ability to take standardized
tests, but says very little about their education and nothing
at all about their ability to think, learn or succeed in
college. i know the SATs are a valuable tool for admissions
counselors who have to process large numbers of applications
and compare many students, but because of Pitzer's small size
and focus on individuality and critical thinking, this would
seem to be the right kind of school to take the leadership
position and refuse the SAT's. I believe all colleges will
eventually steer away from them. |
| 81 |
The SAT's only
test how well you take tests and not your ability to think.
|
| 82 |
Not having the SAT
as an entrance requirement would greatly diminish the quality
and image of Pitzer. Those of us who have already taken the
SAT to get into the school, should not have to bear this
image. |
| 83 |
yes perhaps it
will be more difficult for admissions to eliminate the SAT's
and maybe they don't weigh them into the admission criterion
to heavily but by getting rid of the SAT's we would be taking
a stance, we would stand up and say that we realize that the
SAT's are biased and we do not find that exceptable.
|
| 84 |
If you take away
the S.A.T's it puts way more emphasis on grades which are
equally, if not more flawed than the S.A.T's. |
| 85 |
no |
| 86 |
Some people are
not as test wise as others
|
| 87 |
I think that in
the scheme of things Pitzer is on the up and up interms of
being considered a good school. Just recently have counselors
been advising students to apply to Pitzer. We are just now
gaining notariaty in the outside world. I think that in a few
years one Pitzer has been estabished as a quality institution
then we can get rid of SAT conideration but for now it is
something that doesn't need to be addressed. Besides the fact
that it's not as if Pitzer is really competitive about SATs to
begin with. I know people who got into pitzer who failed out
of High School and still Pitzer gave them a chance. Pitzer is
not "highly selective" about SAT scores so why abolish
something that is used by people outside to rate the school (a
good thing) but that isn't really used that much internally. I
think that making students happy one they get to Pitzer should
be the highest perogative, many students strongly dislike a
great many things about Pitzer. Internal policies, those that
effect students once they get to pitzer, should be addressed
first before we go on to talk about things that wil only hurt
Pitzer's reputation with High Schools and College Counselors.
|
| 88 |
Most of the people
who reply to this survey will obviously be those who are
adamently against the SAT, most likely because they did
relatively poorly and don't want to be labled as "stupid".They
become anti-SAT and blame their educational innabilities on
the innefficiencies of the test rather than on themselves.
Pitzer needs it as a standard of admission in my opinion. Too
many people at this school think they can make up for their
lack of knowledge with their personal rhetorically excessive
b.s. The SAT is obviously not perfect and many other factors
must be considered for admisssion but it serves as a good
filter to rid the school of those who prove to have not
retained or learned basic principles of high school.
|
| 89 |
DON'T COUNT MY
ANSWERS. I JUST DID THIS
TO SEE IF IT IS POSSIBLE TO TAKE
THE
SURVEY TWICE AND NOT BE TRACED. THIS IS
MY SECOND
TIME.
EVEN IF NOBODY ELSE
ANSWRD MORE THAN ONCE,
THIS SURVEY IS NOT SCIENTIFIC. IT DOES
NOT GIVE A TRUE
SAMPLE. PEOPLE WHO DON'T
LIKE THE SURVEYER MIGHT NOT
RESPOND. PEOPLE
WHO DO NOT CARE A WHOLE LOT MIGHT NOT
RESPOND. PEOPLE WHO RESPECT THE PROF WHO
MADE UP THE
SURVEY OR PEOPLE WHO FEEL
REAL STRONGLY ABOUT THE Sat MORE
LIKELY
WOULD RESPOND.
|
| 90 |
Considering that
inherent biases exist in all measures of student performance,
considering that not enough information exists to conclude
that the biases of the SAT are worse/not worse than the biases
in other admissions criterion, considering that the Admissions
Office does not employ a formulaic approach in the selection
process, considering the fragility of Pitzer as an institution
and the unknown repercussions of banning the SATs, the SAT
should NOT be eliminated from the admissions process at this
time. |
| 91 |
I think SAT scores
should be taken into consideration, just not heavily as one's
GPA, extra curriculars/community service should be
|
| 92 |
I have not filled
in any of the above questions because this is a poorly
designed survey. No effort has been made to secure a random
sample, and hence the survey responses will not necessarily
reflect the opinions of the college community as a whole.
|
| 93 |
grading differs
GREATLY between different schools and teachers |
| 94 |
I agree that the
SAT is flawed. So are other measures used by Admissions
(grades have become seriously inflated; recommenders rarely
write anything critical; students may have teachers or others
edit their essays, etc). I am hesitant to vote for the
proposal as it stands and would argue against suspension of
use of the SAT until our Admissions staff feel they have
satisfactory alternatives. I believe that the Admissions staff
currently uses the SAT very carefully and much more cautiously
than do many schools--as only one of a number of
less-than-perfect criteria. I prefer working WITH our very
professional staff towards a change in policy. I am not
opposed to doing away with the SATs at some point; this step
seems premature now. |
| 95 |
I completely agree
w/ #7. Perhaps you think that the ACT can replace the SAT, but
many high school students, such as those living in the
Northeast do not have the option of taking the ACT.
Standardized testing is really the only true way of comparing
students skills and abilities. |
| 96 |
If you keep the
SATs then you need to look deeply into the schools that child
has attended and their economical background. |
| 97 |
Seeing that Pitzer
is very young and not as well established as many other
private schools it seems unwise to make such a drastic
decision as abolishing the SAT. If it is abolished there need
to be something to fills its place whether it be another test
or a different alternative. However biased it may be it seems
that the admissions office is aware of what they are dealing
with and can judge properly who would make a good student
using all peices of information. |
| 98 |
While the SAT
shows to discriminate against minorities and women, it is
really the best tool that colleges have to rank students, in a
sense, according to academic achievement. It is true that
standardized test scores do not show how well students
actually perform in college, but is there really a good way to
even find that sort of information? I think not. If Pitzer
supports the abolishment of the SAT then it should also make a
conscious effort to devise a strategy which will be able to
show how well students have performed academically. Just
because the SAT is racist and sexists does not mean that we
can discount all the students who did work hard during high
school to achieve high academic success and should be rewarded
for this perseverence with the strong liberal arts education
Pitzer offers. |
| 99 |
The professional
opinion of Admissions in considering the pool and its
experience in recruiting and configuring a class each year
seems to me the key issue to consider before we eliminate
summarily a tool they feel is helpful. It is important to me
that they oppose this change. I don't think the SAT is
perfect, by any means, and it has a long-standing history of
showing performance gaps between different racial groups--but
as I understand our current admissions process and the
guidelines and ranges employed, these gaps are more than taken
into consideration. Also, I haven't seen any evidence pointed
to that other colleges which have eliminated the SAT have
successfully encouraged more non-Caucasian enrollment or even
gotten a greater number of applications from these groups.
This seems to me to throw into confusion the causality being
put forward for why we should eliminate the SAT. I have seen
no evidence that we are turning away qualified minority
candidates now or that our pool would shift for example if we
were using only GPA or recommendations as the main criteria.
It seems likely to meor that the pool of non-minority
candidates would be larger if we weren't using the SAT. And my
hunch is that we would have many more Caucasian candidates who
might have trouble with the academic expectations we have at
Pitzer. |
| 100 |
We should have a
"zero-tolerance policy" on racial, sex or class bias;
especially when those biases are "systematic." |
| 101 |
The SAT mirrors
the economic and educational inequalities in our society.
The SAT is NOT intentionally designed to discriminate
against students of color, the poor, and the women.
Pitzer
should do a thorough analysis of this issue before voting to
discontinue the SAT I in the admission process. We should use
our analytical skills to review the literature on this issue
and discuss it among ourselves BEFORE voting. We need to put
into practice the very skills we try to teach our students.
|
| 102 |
While the SAT no
doubt helped me get in, I would rather see it abolished from
admissions nation-wide. |
| 103 |
The SAT is what
got me into college and allowed me to escape a pointless job
in the food service industry. Its abolishment would only mean
that the college demographics would be even more centered
around unintelligent rich prep-school kids, who already make
up the majority of the college. To abolish the SAT would be a
horrible idea that would aid in Pitzer's downfall.
|
| 104 |
i do believe that
the SAT system is a flawed and biased one. however, without
the SATs pitzer will lack the prestige that is necessary for
me to get a good education (since funding will be depleted),
and for what i have learned to be acknowledged in the outside
world (that is, if pitzer looses prestige through abolishing
the SATs, i will have trouble finding jobs and gaining
recognition). instead of working to abolish the SAT system,
what if we first worked to find a better way to judge the
ability of students to succeed in college? once we have a
viable alternative, we can abolish the biased test we have
now. |
| 105 |
If SAT scores are
aboloished from admission requirements, what will be used to
assess and compare academic acheivement levels? |
| 106 |
I believe the SAT
is a great indicator of a student's academic profficiency, but
should not hold the weight that it currently has. Other
merits, such as community involvment and perhaps teacher
recommendations are more important. |
| 107 |
standarized
testing only benifits the privilidged
i believed it is a
classist test. it is well known that in order to get high test
scores on the SAT many students attend expensive workshops,
buy testing booklets and have the time to dedicate their
energy to a test as opposed to their family, regular course
load and a job. we know that most students of color have more
burdens and responsibilities, especially economic.
|
| 108 |
It is only one of
a number of criteria which should be used but it is a very
useful one in assessing certain skills. |
| 109 |
Best current
determiner of relative academic potential |
| 110 |
What is the
alternative? Without the SAT, what other criteria will we use?
How is this working at schools that have already abolished the
SAT? |
| 111 |
the continuing
practise of insitutional racism in an insitution whose
rhetoric claims a diverse, liberal, and social active
community--maintains unearned white class priveldge
|
| 112 |
the continuing
practise of insitutional racism in an insitution whose
rhetoric claims a diverse, liberal, and social active
community--maintains unearned white class priveldge
|
| 113 |
While I agree that
the SAT is biased. I feel that there are no other indicators
that aren't. I also feel that if the college would drop them,
then the school's image and rank would decline and it would be
more difficult to get into law and grad school. |
| 114 |
I believe that the
SAT should be abolished as an admissions criteria, but the
option for students to send scores should remain. It is a
flawed and biased test, I agree, but it is not useless, some
of the SATIIs are a good indicator of how much a student knows
on a very specific subject in a specific way, but it reflects
the way that Pitzer and the rest of the US teaches students.
|
